Curse

super dooper · Sep 22, 2005, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinsei

Amazing. Are you people just scanning this thread for the words "ranger" and "nerf" and posting whenever both occur at once? Note: If you're not currently running this build, and a nerf happens to reduce the efficiency of this build, your little pve pet ranger build is not going to be worse.

could've done without the last part. I love playing Ranger in PvP, I don't run this build, was just hoping outloud that interrupts wouldn't be screwed too bad in a change, assuming they were changed.

After looking more at the damage and even using it a few times (in Random Arenas, and then multiplying what I was doing by 5-6), well, that's alot of damage for firing off a few interrupts. ;p in my opinion, I think the biggest change would be damage, and your suggestion about having them ignore the effects of preperations.

Hanuman li Tosh · Sep 22, 2005, 04:10 PM // 16:10

the point is that yes its ok to have interupts and yes its ok to have high ranged damage but no its not ok to stack the shit together to the point that a team can be shut down.

people compare it to the mesmers interupt, and i agree its not the same. if mesmers could cast 3 interupts in 1.5 seconds that also did 200+ damage people would be SCREAMING nerf.

also, another part of the problem is ONE ranger isnt imbalanced, 5 is. thats the problem with fotm. you aint beating a good ranger spike team with a balance build. there are builds that counter it quite effectively but then you are defenseless against other builds.

Shadowspawn X · Sep 22, 2005, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinsei

Amazing. Are you people just scanning this thread for the words "ranger" and "nerf" and posting whenever both occur at once? Note: If you're not currently running this build, and a nerf happens to reduce the efficiency of this build, your little pve pet ranger build is not going to be worse. None of you so far have stated exactly why skills based on interruption should do more damage than the ranger skills devoted to damage.

First of all, if you're talking about PvE, get out of this thread

Its not about this perticullar build, you are talking about skills all rangers use so, it afftects all rangers who use the skill for anything and all rangers PvP or PvE have a right to respond. So stop trying to eliminate the voice of all the people whom would be affected by your proposal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinsei

The following arguments are irrelevant in this discussion:

"This and this skill or this build counters these rangers!"

Thats extremely relavent and proves it should not be nerfed just because you find it a pain when others are dealing with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinsei

"It's hard enough for my ranger to find a group!"

Your negative ranger propaganda reinforces this classist behavior making it extremely relevent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinsei

"I'm tired of everyone calling NERF! NERF! NERF! whenever something's good."
- Listen, there's a fine line between good and crazy good. Punishing/quickshot - savage - distracting just happens to be crazy good, and unfair at that. Sure, there are many morons out there who post how they feel flare is overpowered because they lost an arena game to it while running their awesome necro/ranger pet guy, but when you see a discussion like this where people who actually know what they're talking about are agreeing that this combination is in fact slightly out of balance, calling it "a typical NERF! NERF! NERF! whine" is just being ignorant. Pay attention. Look at the matter at hand. Things here are not balanced.

I'm reporting anyone who attempts to use any of the above arguments in this thread, for stupidity.

You have called people stupid, ignorant, morons, scrubs and more in your post only because they disagree with you and your weak proposal. Yet, you think you should somehow be taken as an expert and not the immature kid you are coming of as? I dont think so.

Tijger · Sep 22, 2005, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanuman li Tosh

the point is that yes its ok to have interupts and yes its ok to have high ranged damage but no its not ok to stack the shit together to the point that a team can be shut down.

people compare it to the mesmers interupt, and i agree its not the same. if mesmers could cast 3 interupts in 1.5 seconds that also did 200+ damage people would be SCREAMING nerf.

also, another part of the problem is ONE ranger isnt imbalanced, 5 is. thats the problem with fotm. you aint beating a good ranger spike team with a balance build. there are builds that counter it quite effectively but then you are defenseless against other builds.

But are they overpowering against a mixed party or against a caster party? All that damage to casters doesnt mean much if tried against warriors, so again, this whole argument revolves around the specialized group builds for PvP.

That to me is a very flawed argument to take measures against the entire profession of rangers.

Vermilion Okeanos · Sep 22, 2005, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMPecker

"SHIELDS UP" For the win, good game rangers...

watch everyone start using shield up and shield of deflection soon...

Eet GnomeSmasher · Sep 22, 2005, 04:25 PM // 16:25

This is what's going to happen if nerfs do happen.

Ranger interrupts no longer do damage.

Ranger interrupts will be far and few between.

The end.

This is because the nerfs so far have come to appease every complaint people have, just look at what happend to spirits. Instead of fixing one aspect of spirits that was causing a number of complaints (mainly the ability to spam them) they "fixed" everything that was a problem.

The stopped the spam but also stopped spirits from affecting each other. They nerfed NR and QZ and Fertile Season.

My point is that any nerfs coming won't just simply "fix" the underlying problem....but rather "fix" all the symptons and basically overnerf.

And yeah there are some really good counters out there, why not use them? And please don't say "Just because there are counters doesnt mean it's not overpowered" because there ARE valid counters.

Tijger · Sep 22, 2005, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinsei

Amazing. Are you people just scanning this thread for the words "ranger" and "nerf" and posting whenever both occur at once? Note: If you're not currently running this build, and a nerf happens to reduce the efficiency of this build, your little pve pet ranger build is not going to be worse.

Bull, any change to skills affects everyone playing a profession, it even affects anyone who plays against a specific profession. If you cannot see beyond your pathetic little PvP world then thats too bad for you. GW is not just about PvP, period.

Quote:

None of you so far have stated exactly why skills based on interruption should do more damage than the ranger skills devoted to damage.

Oh, thats simple, its a reward for skill as a ranger to watch your target and anticipate his move instead of just firing arrows at anything that moves.

Hanuman li Tosh · Sep 22, 2005, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tijger

But are they overpowering against a mixed party or against a caster party? All that damage to casters doesnt mean much if tried against warriors, so again, this whole argument revolves around the specialized group builds for PvP.

That to me is a very flawed argument to take measures against the entire profession of rangers.

well, if you think they should keep the stacking of damage and interupts for rangers then i think they should do the same for mesmer too since they also have both abilities. that would be funny.

Akimb0 · Sep 22, 2005, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Be a ranger, interrupt back. End of "arguement."

tomcruisejr · Sep 22, 2005, 04:37 PM // 16:37

at high expertise and high marksmanship alone, a ranger can almost spam interrupt bow attacks and deal good dmg at the same time.

rangers can interrupt everyone. most of the interrupt bow attacks halt action (melee attack, bow attack, spell/skill casting, running?, eating? etc). cheap to use and fast recharge.

kinda overpowered.

AeroLion · Sep 22, 2005, 04:38 PM // 16:38

I've been running an interrupt ranger with serpents. I think the problem comes in because of savages recharge being only 5 seconds. It ends up being the link with punishing and distracting so that there's no point where I'm not just going back and forth between those 3 skills except to put serpents back up. So if I'm on a caster, there's practically no chance that they're going to get a spell off because I'm only using interrupts and doing an obscene amount of damage at that.

Punishing is an elite and it's not as good as savage at all. It needs more downtime.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tijger

Oh, thats simple, its a reward for skill as a ranger to watch your target and anticipate his move instead of just firing arrows at anything that moves.

Problem with that is it doesn't take any skill to interrupt with this build because all your attacks are interrupts and you can use them constantly with no downtime.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akimb0

Be a ranger, interrupt back. End of "arguement."

Great solution. Everyone can be a ranger and its all about who can smash the keyboard faster. That's the way to bring longevity to a game.

Akathrielah · Sep 22, 2005, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Cut the damage on the interrupts that rangers have. (It should be damage or interruption, not both)

Fix the Ghostly Hero AI in HoH.

Or better yet change the style of the HoH match from capture the altar to something else.

Problem solved.

Theus · Sep 22, 2005, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Thats exactly what I was thinking.Either Interuption or Damage, Not both.

Which is the main problem behind this Ranger Build.

Also, the Interupts need longer Recharges.For what they are they should take longer to use again.

super dooper · Sep 22, 2005, 04:51 PM // 16:51

in regards to the longer recharges, (yes it can be a strain on energy), but diversion does basically the same thing (aside from interrupting the initial action, and the recharge owns distracting), as distracting shot. I think the initial bow damage and preparations shouldn't count for the skill, and instead it should say, (like distracting shot), this attack only does 'x' amount of damage.

and as said, fix the ghostly AI and buh-bye.

AeroLion · Sep 22, 2005, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Punishing does damage no matter what and it interrupts. It's also elite. Savage does damage only if it interrupts a spell. Distracting does no damage but interrupts skills and spells and increases downtime. All well and good on their own. Get the three of them together with the ability to machine gun them out and you have a problem.

tomcruisejr · Sep 22, 2005, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeroLion

Punishing does damage no matter what and it interrupts. It's also elite. Savage does damage only if it interrupts a spell. Distracting does no damage but interrupts skills and spells and increases downtime. All well and good on their own. Get the three of them together with the ability to machine gun them out and you have a problem.

Distracting (5 energy), Punishing (10 energy), Savage (10 energy) Shots interrupt action.

action = melee attacks, bow attacks, signet casting, skill usage, spell casting, or maybe pet attacks.

concussion shot = only spells @ 25 energy

weird no?

at Maxed expertise and Maxed marksmanship with distracting , punishing, savage and Read the wind with Sundering Bow, your ranger is a winner.

Shinsei · Sep 22, 2005, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

Its not about this perticullar build, you are talking about skills all rangers use so, it afftects all rangers who use the skill for anything and all rangers PvP or PvE have a right to respond. So stop trying to eliminate the voice of all the people whom would be affected by your proposal.

Rangers not running this build, but those who are running a few of the skills from this build are not running those skills with the intention of dishing out a horrible amount of damage quickly. They're running those skills to tactically interrupt certain skills they don't want to see played on the field. That was the innitial intention of interrupts, and that's how they should be in a balanced game. If you had bothered to read my suggestion to fix this, you would have noticed that it does nothing to ruin anyone else's ranger build, and it hardly "ruins" this either. It just reduces the damage of it by a reasonable amount, and that's by having the interrupt skills ignore (not cancel) any preperation bonuses currently on you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

Thats extremely relavent and proves it should not be nerfed just because you find it a pain when others are dealing with it.

I find it a pain? Kid, I'm running this build. Pay attention.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

Your negative ranger propaganda reinforces this classist behavior making it extremely relevent.

Negative ranger propoganda? Do you not want ranger builds that utilize skills with normal attack speeds to be good again? Because as of now, they're just subpar compared to the interrupt spike.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspan X

You have called people stupid, ignorant, morons, scrubs and more in your post only because they disagree with you and your weak proposal. Yet, you think you should somehow be taken as an expert and not the immature kid you are coming of as? I dont think so.

Maybe if people came with viable arguments as to why the interrupt spike isn't better damage than skills meant for damage, I might not catagorize them in to a large group of people. But as long as people continue the "Don't nerf my ranger!" replies, they're nothing other than what I had just called them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

This is what's going to happen if nerfs do happen.

Ranger interrupts no longer do damage.

Ranger interrupts will be far and few between.

The end.

This is because the nerfs so far have come to appease every complaint people have, just look at what happend to spirits. Instead of fixing one aspect of spirits that was causing a number of complaints (mainly the ability to spam them) they "fixed" everything that was a problem.

The stopped the spam but also stopped spirits from affecting each other. They nerfed NR and QZ and Fertile Season.

My point is that any nerfs coming won't just simply "fix" the underlying problem....but rather "fix" all the symptons and basically overnerf.

While I agree with you that they might have overfixed spirits just a tiny bit, I don't agree with you about fixing this. Sure, they might overfix it, as they have done before, but this discussion is about finding the right fix. So far, I honestly believe that the right fix is ignoring preperations on interrupts. You say the symptoms to that would be that interrupts are useless? I beg to differ, as myself and many others have always ran atleast 1 tactical interrupt on a ranger. When you're a ranger with nothing but interrupts, and using them to trigger damage, you're not using those skills to their intent. Interrupts need to be tactical, yet cheap and easy. The last 2 are there, but currently, the first isn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

And yeah there are some really good counters out there, why not use them? And please don't say "Just because there are counters doesnt mean it's not overpowered" because there ARE valid counters

Did I not just explain why the "there's counters!" argument is irrelevant? I would agree, if only these "counters" were something that could be used everywhere. Shields Up is far from that, and for it to be effective you'd want them on your monks or any unit close to them for that matter, and you'd want 2 copies. You're most likely ending up specializing a build just to face this, and ending up with a weak build against anything else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tijger

Bull, any change to skills affects everyone playing a profession, it even affects anyone who plays against a specific profession. If you cannot see beyond your pathetic little PvP world then thats too bad for you. GW is not just about PvP, period.

We on IRC would all like to thank you for the good laugh we had from this comment. We needed the humor

. Anyways, if you're looking for a serious answer to your statement, refer to my first paragraph in this post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tijger

Oh, thats simple, its a reward for skill as a ranger to watch your target and anticipate his move instead of just firing arrows at anything that moves.

That's exactly what you're not doing with this build. You're smashing these 3 skills constantly, interrupting randomly and triggering high damage. Is that really ranger skill?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akimb0

Be a ranger, interrupt back. End of "arguement."

-Sighs-

Mhydrian · Sep 22, 2005, 05:30 PM // 17:30

And a mesmer completely shutting down opponents differs how? A good ranger is one of a very few counters to mesmers. They screw with rangers then i want across the board nerfs to the ways mesmers shutdown their opponents, especially against melee.

Syno Nym · Sep 22, 2005, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzan

Whats sad is how people cry about every FotW. Cried about healing ball, cried about smite, cried about IWAY and now crying about Rangers.

What's sad in fact is how people can't see why there are so many complaints.

Let's see how a ranger can interrupt :

1_Choking gaz + Quick shot
2_Incendiary arrows + Tiger's fury
3_Punishing shot + Savage shot + Distracting shot (+ Serpent quickness)

The first combo is balanced because of the duration and cost of Choking gaz. Moreover, the damage this combo deals isn't that great.

The second combo is balanced because Incendiary arrows has a very short duration (even shorter than Choking gaz) and a fairly long recast time.

The third combo is imbalanced because you can use it with Kindle arrows, and have a better interrupt rate than you would have with Choking gaz or Incendiary arrows, and deal a great amount of damage, almost CONSTANTLY.

Esrever · Sep 22, 2005, 05:43 PM // 17:43

/agree with shinzen.

The rangers interrupts don't need to be nerfed, the damage that they do needs to be nerfed (for lack of a better word). The fact that a ranger running interrupts can do more damage than a ranger running quickshot is laughable.

I'm waiting for Echo + Debil to get popular, and see the response that gets.